posted April 17, 2003 12:32 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by vze2:
Seeing these comic in hardcover istn't what's important to me. I just want to see them. I've never seen most GA comics and couldn't afford the ones I did see.

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I guess that's the big difference. Scarcity doesn't concern me, esp. since the scarcist books (GA) are the ones I'm least interested in. I'm more concerned about getting books I like in an upscale package. That's why the price of the back issues has never been the point for me.

posted April 17, 2003 03:55 PM            

Let me refine my question:

Would you rather have an Archive hardcover or a regular cover of a recent comic?

posted April 22, 2003 09:03 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Joe Pacheco:
I guess that's the big difference. Scarcity doesn't concern me, esp. since the scarcist books (GA) are the ones I'm least interested in. I'm more concerned about getting books I like in an upscale package. That's why the price of the back issues has never been the point for me.

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This is a point I've tried to make a number of times. I think there are two main groups here.

1. People like me. Many of us are trying to read comics that we have no other way to read. We don't necessarily think that these are the best comics, but we have no other opportunity. For many of us, these are comics we have never read. For others, these are comics that they read as kids but no longer own. GA and early SA are almost always our highest priorities.

2. People like you. Quality, both content and format, is very important to you, but scarcity isn't. People like you see most GA comics as crude; most people in my group would agree.

People in your group have virtually no interest in GA comics while many people in my group have a very high interest. This is why I don't think late 70s comics should be Archived (which means the standard trade dress, $50, slow rotation).

In my opinion, Archiving late 70s comics is bad for both groups. For my group, it slows down the rotation. For your group, it slows rotation, significantly increases the price, and saddles it with a relatively boring trade dress.

Personally, I feel that many of the comics that people in your group would like would be more successful as trade paperacks (good quality ones, not Essentials). People like me who can't afford another hardcover would buy them and younger people with less cash and more interest in recent material would also be more likely to pick them up. There are lots of people who complain about the high price of Archives. I think that the TPB route gets more of the material you want in a nice format, if not the best format.

However, even if you only want hardcovers, I still think it is better for late 70s material to be separated. In my opinion, a $25-$30 New Teen Titans hardcover with a unique design would have sold enough copies to justify annual publication. No Archive since the good years began has waited as long between volumes as NTT. I'm sure that the price is the problem.

So in my opinion, you are more likely to get hardcovers of comics from the late 70s to now if you don't call them Archives.

posted April 22, 2003 09:05 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by the ?:
I also buy mainly hardcover books. I like the permanence. But I don't think everything that deserves a hardcover deserves an Archive.

Let me refine my question:

[b]Would you rather have an Archive hardcover or a regular hardcover of a recent comic?

Would you be willing to spend an extra $15 over the price of a regular hardcover to get the material in an Archive?[/B]

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Again, this is the point I've been trying to make. Definitely nothing new to add this time.

posted April 22, 2003 12:51 PM               

quote:

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In my opinion, Archiving late 70s comics is bad for both groups. For my group, it slows down the rotation. For your group, it slows rotation, significantly increases the price, and saddles it with a relatively boring trade dress.

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posted April 22, 2003 09:04 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by NecessaryImpurity:
[B] Yeah, but if DC priced each volume according to cost, your typical 1940s volume might be $60, your typical 1960s volume $40, and your typical 1980s volume $25. That sort of pricing will drive people away from the 1940s material, and would increase the sales of the newer stuff. How many of us would be willing to regularly pay the premium on the 1940s stuff? The end result would be that the 1940s material trickles to a halt because it's too expensive for the market.

/B]

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posted April 22, 2003 09:22 PM               

Because a taste for the recent and the new is no less narrow and parochial than a taste for the old.

posted April 22, 2003 09:50 PM            

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Originally posted by James Friel:
Because the whole history of the company and of the medium deserves to be preserved, and making everyone who's interested in any one aspect of it pay for all the others doesn't bother me one bit.

Because a taste for the recent and the new is no less narrow and parochial than a taste for the old.

Because they can get away with it; Silver Age fans will pay to subsidize Golden Age volumes if it means thay get thsirs. I know--I like the Silver stuff better as a reader.

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I agree that almost all of the history should be saved. I say "almost" because there are probably hundreds of obscure backups not worth the time and there is no interest. DC probably will never get to them anyway.

I don't think any faction should subsidize any other. If the Neal Adams GL/GAs and Deadman books are $75, then if Golden Age stuff means enough to a collector they will pay $75 for stories that would otherwise cost thousands. If Golden Age books make Silver Age or Modern Age books more expensive due to subsidizing, that's bad business. If the Silver Age books would otherwise be $39.99 or the Modern Age $19.99, DC will only hurt itself with overpricing stuff in demand when the Golden Age folks would pay $75 or $100. It's the same way with the standard books, most of the Superman and Batman books are cheaper than the other titles due to demand, so the other titles get marked up to $2.95.

posted April 22, 2003 11:44 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by vze2:
[B]

In my opinion, Archiving late 70s comics is bad for both groups. For my group, it slows down the rotation. For your group, it slows rotation, significantly increases the price, and saddles it with a relatively boring trade dress.

Personally, I feel that many of the comics that people in your group would like would be more successful as trade paperacks (good quality ones, not Essentials). People like me who can't afford another hardcover would buy them and younger people with less cash and more interest in recent material would also be more likely to pick them up. There are lots of people who complain about the high price of Archives. I think that the TPB route gets more of the material you want in a nice format, if not the best format.

[B]

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Couple of thoughts. I like the 70's/80's material in the archive format because I envision the archive line as a "best of the best" prestige line and those 70's/80's books deserve to be included. Quality should be the overiding part of the equation.

Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how I see it.

While HC series like Sandman/Dark Knight/LOEG are nice, I think that they suffer from being orphaned instead of being part of series. As I suggested before, I'd love to a see a DC Signature line or Modern Archive or whatever you want to call it which creates a library of DC's titles. Nobody commented on it, so I'd say it's an unpopular idea. Of course this is a second choice. I prefer increased archive production and the Jonah Hex, Hellblazer, GA Flash, New Teen Titans, World's Finest to live happily together.

About TPB's from the 70's & 80's, I think you may be overestimating the demand. With a few exceptions most of the best mid-80's to recent material is in TPB. The 70's stuff is so old it might as well be from the 50's. Maybe I'm underestimating things but I think the demo that would buy a Jonah Hex or the Superman Sand Saga or 1970's Legion book would just as soon buy a HC as a SC. In other words say Jonah Hex archives #1 sells 3000 (initial orders) as $50 archive, it would have to sell 7500 $20 TPBs. I doubt the TPB would sell more than 5000.